Gotenks ssj 3

Gotenks ssj 3 DEFAULT

Using the Daizenshuu & Japanese Manga:

Innocent BuuChapter: (DBZ ), P

Trunks: “N-no! We’ll fight too! You’ll be killed on your own, papa! We’ll definitely be able to defeat him if we 3 do it together!”

Vegeta: “It’s no use…No matter how many of us go at him…Not if we fight in the ordinary way…”

Vegeta concludes that they are incapable of defeating Majin Buu the ordinary way (physical attacks[).Which is why he resorts to using a Ki attack.However, it still isn’t enough to completely destroy Majin Buu.

Innocent Buu > Majin Vegeta SSJ2

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Goku: “…I’ll be frank. It’s no use. I can’t defeat [Majin Boo]. [ ] …There was practically no gap between Vegeta’s true strength and mine…And Majin Boo is still fine despite Vegeta sacrificing himself, right? Sorry, but I couldn’t win, no matter what.”

Goku establishes that he and Vegeta were evenly matched as Super Saiyan 2’s and that he wouldn’t be able to defeat Boo himself.

Innocent Buu > Goku SSJ2

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Goku: “Damn it! If either Vegeta or Gohan were alive, maybe we could have managed something…”

Piccolo: “…No, it probably wouldn’t matter how many people went at him…He wasn’t at that level…”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Goten and Trunks question Goku’s power and Piccolo gets mad

Goku: “It’s alright, Piccolo…I really am weak. It don’t look like I can beat Majin Boo, not even a little bit.”

Both Piccolo and Goku seem to think that Innocent Buu would defeat the like of Goku fighting alongside Gohan or Vegeta.This coincides with what we’re told above.

Innocent Buu > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead

Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”

Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”

Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

Goku tells Dende that he has never tested fusion out for himself and that the only mathematical basis that he’s using to determine the strength of the product of the sum is: ‘two weak and gentle people turned into someone substantial.’Therefore the reliability of his estimations have to be called into question.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes

Goku: “With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

Goku establishes that even if they perform fusion successfully than will be powerful enough to defeat Majin Buu.

We have:

Gotenks SSJ Pre (Hypothetical) > Innocent Buu > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2

Note: This occurred prior to fighting Majin Buu or sensing Goten and Trunks at full power.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Goten and Trunks turn into Super Saiyans

Goku: “Alright! Now then, gather your ki up to your utmost limits. All the way full!”

Trunks: “Hehe…Alrii—iight. Let’s freak ‘em out, Goten.”

Goten: “Yeah…hihihi…”

*they power up*

Piccolo: “Gu…!”

Goku: “Alright, so that’s full?”

Goten: “Huh!?”

Trunks: “Ye-yeah…”

After fighting Majin Buu, who proved to be more formidable than he originally thought, Goku finally has an opportunity to sense Goten and Trunks at full power.Goku is forced to ask Goten and Trunks whether or not they are at full power as Super Saiyans because he doesn’t know how powerful they are or how powerful that they could become.Therefore, his previous estimations about the strength of fusion is hearsay because it isn’t based on certainty.

Note: Gotenks’ hypothetical strength level is no longer relevant.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!”

Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…”

Goku lies to Piccolo by telling him that he told Buu that someone stronger than himself would fight Majin Buu.The only reason why he told Piccolo (and not Buu) is because Piccolo was worried that Majin Buu would destroy the Earth before they could perform fusion.Goku assures him that this won’t happen.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P, P

Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?How about it, am I wrong?”

Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…”

Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?Does it have to do with that energy…?”

Goku: “No…I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”

Goku lies to Piccolo again by telling him that he couldn’t have defeated Majin Buu.However, he does this because of his moral principals and duties.He wants the younger generation to defeat Majin Buu and not himself.

After sensing Goten and Trunks at full power and fighting with Majin Buu for the first time, Goku changes his opinion about the effectiveness about fusion and applies the word gamble.He also isn’t as certain anymore about how they’ll win: ‘It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another.”But because of how gifted they are he believes that it’s worth taking this gamble.

DBZBig Vol.8, pg

Goku: "Sorry, but we don't know when Babidi will find us. We've gotta start now."

Piccolo: "Will you use the Room of Spirit and Time?"

Goku: "No. They can only use it for two days in their whole lives, right? They might need it later, they are gonna learn this quick.”

Piccolo asks Goku whether or not he’ll use the Room of Spirit and Time to speed up the time that it will take to learn fusion, but Goku says that they might need it later.Goku also applies the word gamble under the reference of strength because fighting with Majin Buu and sensing the boys at full power forced him to change his opinion.Goku now believes that strength is the only relevant issue because the boys are going to learn to fuse quickly.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: Chi-Chi thinks Goten will get killed by Boo

Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

Chi Chi is worried that Goten will be killed but Goku reassures her that it won’t happen if they can perfect fusion.This is completely consistent with Goku’s altered viewpoints (specifically the viewpoints that we’ve demonstrated above) about fusion.However, only Goku and Piccolo know that fusion, up until this point, is still considered to be a gamble.

Note: There is a clear distinction being made here.It cannot argue that Goku's statements (“just managing to perform fusion successfully,” and “perfecting the technique.”) are mutual in definition, they are not.Things happened that caused Goku to change his opinion on three different occasions and we have now established what those reasons were.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Piccolo says to try Fusion again, as Super Saiyans

Gotenks: “Hehhehheh…Aren’t you underestimating me? Like this, I’m more than enough to defeat Majin Boo.”

Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win

After appearing for the first time, Gotenks immediately believes that he is capable of defeating Majin Buu as he is.

Note: Trunks previously sensed what Majin Buu was capable of on several different occasions but Gotenks seems to disregard that altogether.Therefore, Gotenk’ opinion doesn’t stem from logic whatsoever, he’s simply jumping to conclusions.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: After Gotenks takes off, saying he'll beat Boo

Kuririn: “He-he’s pretty haughty, but just maybe he re-really will be able to take care of [Boo]…”

Yamcha: “Ye-yeah…He sure seemed pretty confident…”

The terminology ‘haughty’ suggests that Kuririn feels that Gotenks is being arrogantly superior; having or revealing an exaggerated sense of his own importance or abilities.Therefore, Kuririn isn't comparing Gotenks to Buu based on what he senses from him, he's simply giving him the benefit of the doubt due to his own self confidence.Arrogant ignorance is impossible to defeat because blind optimism can be a dangerous form of denial.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Gotenks returns from fighting Boo

Gotenks: “I got the tar beaten out of me…”

Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when you perform Fusion. Got that, you miserable little punks?!”

Gotenks Base Pre is quickly defeated and returns as a pummeled mess.

Innocent Buu > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Super Saiyan Gotenks forms for the first time

Piccolo: “…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible, but how about your movement?Show me a little.”

Gotenks: “Is that alright? If I show you here, the house might break. I’ll do it on the ground.”

Piccolo states that Gotenks has proven to be a powerful fighter but he doesn’t know what he’s capable of yet so he begins to test him out a bit.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: Piccolo finally catches up to Gotenks

Gotenks: “You’re slow. So you finally got here? Besides circling around the Earth several times, I even took a little afternoon nap. [ ] Fuffuffuh…So you can’t tell just from my speed just now? My super-duper incredible power…! …Which is to say that the test is over, and I’m going to go take care of that annoying Majin Boo right away…”

*Gotenks takes off*

Piccolo: “H-hey, you idiot! Kuh…! Wh-what a shithead…H-he already has only 1 minute left that he can stay merged. That dimwhit…!”

Gotenks falsely believes that speed and strength are mutual things, they are not.(This post will debunk the contention that they do: http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?t=) Because of his immense speed he believes that he can defeat Majin Buu but he never actually has an opportunity to fight against him.

Herms:

In Japanese it's ambiguous whether the ki in that last sentence is supposed to be Boo's or the kids'; there's no actual possessive and you have to figure it out from context. If you look at just the one panel with Goku's line, it's pretty natural to assume it's referring to the kids' ki, but in the larger context of the scene I think it makes the most sense if it's referring to Boo, since they'd previously mentioned his ki vanishing. At any rate, since the reason they think Boo's ki vanished is because he entered the RoSaT, and since Goten and Trunks weren't fused when they went in, if Goku is talking abou their ki then he really must mean their ki as individuals and not as Gotenks.

A) Gotenks SSJ Pre was not sensed from the Kaioshin Realm.

B) Therefore Gotenks SSJ Pre is not stronger than Goku SSJ3.

Daizenshuu 7

The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others.

The Daizenshuu states that ‘as a result (of his training) Gotenks surpassed Vegeta.’This tells us that Gotenks was never stronger than even Vegeta before entering the Rosat.The entry has pictures of all of Gotenks’ forms and is directly over top a picture of Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.It is obviously referencing Gotenks as a whole and not necessarily Gotenks in only his Base form.Therefore we can conclude that Majin Vegeta SSJ2 is in fact, stronger than Gotenks SSJ Pre since no evidence suggests otherwise.

As a final conclusion, we have:

Innocent Buu > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Gotenks Base Post

Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”

I have decided to include this little tidbit because it shows Goku stating that he wanted the younger generation to manage something against Boo. This is the second time that he’s used those specific words ‘manage something’, which within the Dragonball Universe, is always used to reference a weaker fighter, or fighters, being capable of defeating a stronger one.He provided Piccolo with the option of using the Rosat as a last resort because even if Gotenks didn’t quite live up to his grandiose expectations it wouldn’t of really mattered because Buu cannot sense Ki.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Narrator: “Due to his strong anger, the evil portion that Majin Boo had kept inside himself greatly swelled up and became another Majin Boo, who came flying out…In other words, he was divided into a pure evil Majin Boo and an innocent Majin Boo…”

The Manga states that Majin Buu’s strength was divided between the respective traits of good versus evil.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: as the two Boos fight

Narrator: “The original Majin Boo had no chance of winningThis was because during the split, the majority of the power went to the evil one…"

However, we’re told that most of the energy was transferred to the evil portion of Majin Buu.

Daizenshuu 7

He killed the North and West Kaioshin, absorbed the South Kaioshin, and then when he took in the gentle heart of the Dai Kaioshin, his ferociousness and power were somewhat weakened. Afterwards he was sealed away by Bibidi, and many centuries passed. In the year Age , his seal was broken by Bibidi's son Babidi, and he was once again resurrected as a fearsome majin. Though he befriended Mister Satan for a time, afterwards he changed into an evil Buu. This evil Buu powered up by successively absorbing Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan. In his battle against Vegetto, the good portion inside him was cut off, and he transformed into his original form, the pure Buu. In the end, he was annihilated by a Super Genki-dama collected from the ki of all humanity. Meanwhile, the good Buu came to live with Mister Satan, and changed his name to Mister Buu.

Buff Majin Buu is the version of Majin Buu that absorbed the Grand Kaioshin, and after doing so, his battle power was only somewhat lessened.Innocent Buu and Super Buu are comprised of the same material, therefore the most logical determination is that they are the same strength.Because of that, we have:

Super Buu =/= Innocent Buu > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Boo transforms into evil Boo

Piccolo: “…Have you noticed? …This change in Majin Boo’s ki…[ ] …He’s changed…All due to some idiotic Earthlings…He’s become pure evil, and his body has become more suited toward battle…Th-this…this…”

Piccolo establishes that Super Buu’s Ki has changed and he determines that Buu has become pure evil because of that.Furthermore, Super Buu’s body has become better suited towards battle, therefore making him a more deadly opponent.

Note: The feeling of Buu’s Ki is what changed, Piccolo doesn’t state that it increased.This is the only way Piccolo could conclude that Buu has become pure evil.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Goku: “…This is Majin Boo, right? This ki…what is it?”

Goku also establishes that Majin Buu’s Ki has changed in how it feels.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Piccolo: “Da-damn it…! This Majin Boo is able to spot our ki!”

Super Buu is capable of sensing Ki, which gives Piccolo no time to prepare the boys for their fight against Majin Buu, this makes the situation even more dire than it was before.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time

Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

The Daizenshuu 7 has informed us that Innocent Buu and Super Buu are the same strength.The Manga conforms to that ideology since it shows us that both of these Majin Buu’s are comprised of the same materialThis leads us to the conclusion that Gotenks SSJ Pre actually stood no chance against Innocent Buu.However, because Innocent Buu could not sense Ki, Piccolo still had time to prepare.How?Goku told him that they might need the Room of Spirit and Time later.Because Buu can now sense Ki, Piccolo’s hand is forced immediately.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Trunks: “Huh!? That’s Majin Boo!?”

Goten: “He-he really has changed…”

Piccolo: “It’s not just his appearance…Everything about him is definitely greater than before…”

Each statement defines the other. “His body has become better suited towards battle.His heart has become pure Evil. He can now sense Ki.”These explicit statements are implied parts of everything about him.

Arguing that Buu got stronger would force you to make an assumption.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: Trunks doesn’t like the idea of fighting Boo as a Super Saiyan 3 from the start

Trunks: “I think…that we’ve already progressed so much that even in a regular state Fusion, we’ll be about equal with Majin Boo”

Trunks determines that Gotenks Base Post has become powerful enough to fight against Main Buu.

Super Buu =/= Innocent Buu =/= Gotenks Base Post (Hypothetical) > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: seeing Gotenks after he’d trained in the Room of Spirit and Time

Piccolo: “He-he really is different…! He really has greatly powered up…! Th-this just might…!”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: Gotenks attacks Boo, to little effect

Boo: “May I attack now?”

Gotenks: “…Wa-wait a little bit…*thinking* …Tha-that’s strange…That should have effected him a decent amount, but…Hahha~~an! He’s just pretending it didn’t hurt him…”

Piccolo: “…Th-this may be hopeless…”

Piccolo establishes that Gotenks Base Post has powered up and he automatically concludes that Gotenks may stand a chance.However, after seeing what Gotenks could actually do, he immediately dismisses this idea.This also renders Trunks’ previous statement invalid.

Gotenks Base Post fairs much worse than Majin Vegeta did.Goku also felt that the fused Super Saiyans at least had a shot, so we can now conclude that he did not surpass his previous Super Saiyan transformation.

Super Buu =/= Innocent Buu > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Piccolo: “Oh! So he can become a Super Saiyan even after Fusion?!”

Gotenks surprises Piccolo with his new found capabilities that he achieved after entering the Room of Spirit and Time.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Gotenks fights Boo a bit, and head-butts him

Piccolo: “He…he just might…possibly be able to de-defeat him…!”

During his fight with Gotenks SSJ Post Super Buu finds himself having some mild difficulty with him, enough difficulty that Piccolo is slowly becoming convinced that Gotenks may actually be capable of defeating him.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Piccolo: “You did well, you truly did well! Quite frankly I didn’t think you’d be able to do so much.”

Within the Viz translation, Piccolo comments on Gotenks’ technique as being the factor that bested Buu and not necessarily his strength.However, Super Buu quickly regenerate and resumes to beat up Gotenks SSJ Post Rosat, which forces Gotenks to transform into a Super Saiyan 3, but Piccolo destroys the entrance to the Room of Spirit and Time before this occurs.

We now have:

Super Buu =/= Innocent Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P, P

Context: right after Gotenks transforms into a Super Saiyan 3

Piccolo: “Wh-what’s happened to yo-you…!?”

Gotenks: “Don’t ask me, I don’t know. Hehhe~~eh, that freaked you out, didn’t it!? But I’m super-duper strong!”

*he screams and opens up a big hole*

Gotenks: “I did it!”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Boo: “Huh? Did you change a little bit?”

Gotenks: “Idiiiiot! I’m not making a big fuss over just ‘a little bit’! I’ve become incredibly, incredibly, incree~~eedibly strong!”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P, P

Context: after Gotenks blasts Boo with the Rapid-Fire Die-Die Missiles and Piccolo stops him

Gotenks: “Well, whatever. I already did quite a lot, after all. He should be pretty weakened.”

*Boo comes out*

Gotenks: “…He ain’t weakened…This really pisses me off!”

Piccolo: “N-no…He is weakened…I don’t know about physically, but he’s weakened a little mentally…! Th-this is the first time…that he’s fought someone strong like you…He’s feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own…”

Gotenks: “Dehhehheh! So in other words, Majin Boo’s freaked out, huh!? That’s right! My strength ain’t half-assed! I’m the best in the universe!”

Piccolo is still under the belief that Innocent Buu was stronger than Goku SSJ3.Because of this, he believes that Gotenks, and only Gotenks, is on par with Majin Buu.Near the end of the battle Gotenks clearly had the upper hand, but Super Buu concludes that he was saving Super Gotenks for later.For simplicity’s sake, we’ll say that they are the same strength:

Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Super Buu =/= Innocent Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Note: Goku SSJ3 fared better against Buu than Gotenks SSJ Post did.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”

Note: presumably be saying that "the Fused squirts have returned to normal", Goku means that Gotenks has split back up into Goten and Trunks, not merely that Gotenks' reverted from Super Saiyan 3 to regular Gotenks. At the very least, Goten and Trunks are separate by the time Goku and Vegeta find them inside of Boo.

Herms’ note is completely ambiguous.Previous evidence suggests that when Gotenks reverts from Super Saiyan 3 he transforms back his Base form.Trunks did state that if they used Super Saiyan 3 than their fusion would become undone and that they would revert into two people, however, this isn’t what we’re shown.Therefore, the most logical conclusion is that Piccolo is stronger than Gotenks Base Post.

Which provides us with the final chain:

Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Innocent Buu =/= Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Piccolo > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Even since the Cell Games Goku has been looking for a new savior to protect the Earth.Originally, this was supposed to be Gohan.However, an even greater threat than Cell appeared and presumably killed Gohan --which was later shown to be false-- so Goku entrusts the Earth’s protection to the younger generation.

At first he believes that Gotenks will be superior to Majin Buu but after fighting Majin Buu for himself, and sensing Goten and Trunks at full power, he changes his viewpoints and applies the word gamble; strength is the only factor in Goku’s mind because he believes that they are going to learn to fuse quickly.He also tells Piccolo that they might need the Room of Spirit and Time after learning fusion because it alone may not be powerful enough.

Super Buu appears and forces Piccolo’s hand.The boys are immediately sent into the Rosat.There they acquire abilities that neither Piccolo nor Goku were aware of.The newly improved Super Saiyan Gotenks is able to fight against Buu so efficiently that Piccolo becomes convinced that he may actually win.

Because Goku changes his viewpoints about how powerful Gotenks would be, and because Super Buu and Innocent Buu are equal in strength, and finally, because Gotenks SSJ Post troubled him so much, the logical determination is that Gotenks SSJ Post was the product that Goku was relying on all along.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: Gohan is impatient with the speed of Elder Kaioshin’s power-up

Elder Kaioshin: “Hmm…The fact that we aren’t done yet…Shows that your dormant abilities are extremely incredible.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Gohan gets mad and unintentionally releases his power

Gohan: “Wh-what the…!? Is-is this seething power…mine…!?”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P, P

Context: after Gohan’s unintentional display of power

Goku: “…Am…amazin’…So he really wasn’t just some regular dirty old geezer?*talking to Kaioshin* ‘Do-dormant ability’…That’s a person’s true power, that they have hidden all along…Right?”

Kaioshin: “Ye-yeah…I-I think so…”

Goku: “Mu-must be…Man, Go-Gohan…Just how the heck much power is he hidin'?”

Goku is impressed with the level of power that Gohan displayed.However it still wasn’t powerful enough for Super Buu to conclude that he was outclassed, it was however, strong enough for him to begin preparing for the arrival of a stronger fighter.

Note: It’s worth noting that this display of power was strong enough to be sensed from across the Universe whereas Gotenks SSJ Pre was not.Nor were the Super Saiyan 2’s, so we can conclude that Gohan at least surpassed the likes of Majin Vegeta & Goku SSJ2 in this scenario.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Gohan: “Ho-how can I turn into this mightiest of warriors!?”

Elder Kaioshin: “You transform into that Super whatever-it-is a lot, right? You’ll be fine if you just get the gist of that, and throw in a kiai.”

Gohan: “The gist of Super Saiyan…I-I got it…!”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Gohan transforms into the ‘mightiest of warriors’

Goku: “It re-really is incredible…It’s super-duper…! Absolutely unbelievable…Your appearance has hardly changed…And you ain’t even a Super Saiyan…Yet you’ve been taken to su-such an extreme…”

Elder Kaioshin: “Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”

Because Gohan’s dormant powers were released far beyond their normal limits and because of Goku’s reactions, we can conclude that Ultimate Gohan had surpassed the likes of Majin Buu and Gotenks SSJ3 Post Rosat.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Gohan beats up on Boo

Gohan: “You can’t win…”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Boo: “Far, far, waa~~aay far away, I felt a strong power…I won’t allow anyone to have a power stronger than mine…”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Boo disappears

Trunks: “Even if he really is still alive, it doesn’t matter! That jerk was helpless against Gohan! [Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!”

Goten: “He was even stronger.”

Trunks: “Really? …Yeah…Just a little bit.”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”

Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Super Buu, Goten and Trunks conclude that Ultimate Gohan proved to be even more powerful than either Buu or Gotenks SSJ3 Post Rosat.

Now we have:

Ultimate Gohan > Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Innocent Buu =/= Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Piccolo > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P, P

Context: after Gohan and Gotenks-absorbed Boo fight a bit

Boo: “What’s the matter? You’re erasing your ki and hiding in a place like that…Are you trying to stall for time? Meaning that just from that you seem to have realized…That like this, you’re absolutely no match for me…”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Gohan breaks out of Boo's Rapid-Fire Super Doughnuts

Boo: “Cheh…You’re pretty tenacious. ”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Gohan and Boo have fought for awhile

Boo: “What’s the matter? Hang in there. You’re weakening a great deal.

Despite Gohan’s power up he is unable to defeat Super Buutenks, who proves to be significantly more powerful than even Ultimate Gohan.

We have:

Super Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Innocent Buu =/= Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Piccolo > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Boo: “Fu…fuhahahaha…! This is great! I’ve powered up even more than before! And what’s more, now there’s no time limit!”

After absorbing Ultimte Gohan, Super Buu has powered up even more significantly than he had before, leading us to this chain:

Super Buuhan > Super Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Innocent Buu =/= Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Piccolo > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: as Vegetto beats up on Gohan-absorbed Boo

Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”

Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Vegetto outclasses Boo

Vegetto: “…Well, don’t feel too bad. Even I’m surprised. To think that I’d be able to make this big a fool out of you.”

After fusing with Vegeta, Vegetto pretty effortlessly destroys Super Buuhan as a Super Saiyan.This chain seems to be rather obvious:

Super Vegetto > Super Buuhan > Super Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Innocent Buu =/= Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Piccolo > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: Goku points out that if he and Vegeta aren’t merged, Vegeta will have to return to the afterlife

Vegeta: “Hmph…That’s better than being merged with you…Anyway, there shouldn’t be any need for us to merge anymore, right?”

Goku: “We can’t know that! There’s [no] guarantee that we’ll be able to successfully rescue everyone who got absorbed from here and return Boo to the very first one of all…!”

Note: when Goku finds the good Boo later, he calls him “the very first one of all”, so apparently that’s the form of Boo he means here too.

This sentences are intended to be taken jointly.Goku’s plan is to rescue everybody who was absorbed and return Majin Buu to the very first one of all.Goku doesn’t know how Super Buu formed so the incarnation that Goku is thinking of is the Innocent Majin Buu, the more docile and less dangerous incarnation of Buu.Someone they can possibly dispatch together --since the premise of fighting Super Buuhan is suicide-- like how Goku and Piccolo managed something against Raditz despite being four times weaker.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo

Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”

Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”

Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Goku: “…But there is one way we can win!”

Vegeta: “You want to say Fusion, right? Well who cares about that?!”

Goku: “Huh? You know about it?”

Vegeta: “I saw it from the afterlife…You’ve got to be joking! You think I’d perform those ugly poses…?! Anyway, I thought I told you that I’m not going to merge with you a second time.”

If you take the highlighted part at face value than it is logical to conclude that Super Buu is simply stronger than Goku.However, if you line it up with the quotes that come afterwards, in addition to the artwork, it becomes quite clear that Goku stated that they were weaker than Buu as a means to convince Vegeta to try fusion.His childish demeanor makes this quite evident.

By this point they had already achieved their goal by rescuing everybody who was absorbed, and most importantly, they rescued Piccolo.Therefore if they fused together and immediately defeated Majin Buu than they could resurrect everybody else who was killed by him, Vegeta included.Which also tells us that it wouldn’t of mattered if Vegeta returned to the after life after fusing because he could simply be resurrected.

Lastly, the audience is still under the belief that Goku is weaker than Innocent Buu, which would simultaneously suggest that he’s weaker than Super Buu as well.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form

Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!

While undergoing his transformation into his Pure form, it seems that Super Buu’s Ki actually increased during the metamorphosis.However, it was implied to have increased by a small degree and because of this, I wouldn’t argue that he surpassed Ultimate Gohan by this point.

We now have:

Super Vegetto > Super Buuhan > Super Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > Buff Buu > Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Innocent Buu =/= Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Piccolo > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “

Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “

Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “

Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”

Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption[s]…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

The Japanese language has no plural so we cannot determine whether it was one or both of Majin Buu’s absorption’s that lowered his power.Within the context of the Manga, we’re never actually told that Pure Buu’s Ki decreased during his metamorphosis --arguing that it did would require an assumption-- and the word that was used to describe him was completely exempt from Ki altogether and was only ever used to describe physical shrinking.Nothing implies that his Ki decreased and a wall of evidence suggests otherwise.Such as Goku’s cocky appearance.This makes it clear that he’s judging Pure Buu based upon his size only to immediately contract his words later.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/seg-story-volume-truth-about-dragon-ball/

When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"]. There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.

Genki - Energy

Yuuki - Bravery

Shouki - True character.

By the virtue of Akira Toriyama’s statements it would make the most sense that the Pure Majin Buu would be stronger than Buff Buu or Super Buu because he is the original Majin and he would have full access to his Shouki; aka true character.However, Super Buutenks and Super Buuhan over-rode this due to the Genki/Energy that they consumed from other fighters, which would coincidentally make them more powerful.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form

Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”

Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”

Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

‘Chidzimu’ is never used to reference a decrease in Ki.Vegeta expresses his own confidence and believes that they can now defeat him as he is and Goku immediately agrees with him. The only logical conclusion is that Pure Buu is being judged by his size, The artwork, paired with the word that is being called into question, make this the most logical conclusion, since the alternative would require an assumption to justify.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: Boo forms a big ki blast

Goku: “It-it’s huge…! You’ve got to be kidding…! Do-does he intend to unleash that…!? …We can’t knock back something like that…!”

Goku initially under estimated Pure Buu --like he and Vegeta previously did while fighting against Innocent Buu-- who then casually blows the planet away and proves to be more formidable than they expected.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo

Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”

Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”

Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”

Goku finally establishes that he was stronger than Innocent Buu the entire time, which would simultaneously make him stronger than Super Buu as well.Furthermore, Goku "corrected" himself as he was referring to a fight that actually took place. Goku never fought Super Buu, so there would be no need to "correct" himself in the same light.

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”

Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”

Vegeta: “Eh?”

Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”

Vegeta: “One minute?!”

Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”

Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

Chapter: (DBZ ), P

Context: as Goku fights pure Boo

Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

While inside of Super Buu’s body Goku and Vegeta sensed Majin Buu’s Ki as it decreased.Therefore, Vegeta knows how strong Super Buuhan, Super Buu and Ultimate Gohan all were.However, he still conforms to the idea that only Goku is capable of defeating Pure Buu.

This gives us the final chain of:

Super Vegetto > Super Buuhan > Super Buutenks > Goku SSJ3 > Pure Buu > Ultimate Gohan > Gotenks SSJ3 Post =/= Innocent Buu =/= Super Buu > Gotenks SSJ Post > Majin Vegeta SSJ2 =/= Goku SSJ2 > Gotenks SSJ Pre > Piccolo > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Arguments and Rebuttals

Argument#1: The Daizenshuu 7 entry is about Base Gotenks since it has a picture of him next to the statement.

Counter: Herms: It's got pictures of all Gotenks' forms in the entry. It's got regular Gotenks at the start, but images of the other forms, even the fat/skinny ones, are scattered around. In the Chouzenshuu 4 version at least, the get in question may be to the left of the little thumbnail of regular Gotenks, but it's directly over a big picture of Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

All that said, I really doubt the pictures factor into anything at all. By "Gotenks" they mean Gotenks in general. They most likely describe him as surpassing Vegeta during the RoSaT training because, hype aside, it's really only after that point that he actually does stuff proving he's stronger than the previous guys who fought Boo.

Argument#2: Goku didn’t try fusion out in the afterlife because it would yield a crummy result, like fusing with Hercule.Therefore, two powers can potentially fuse if the stronger one suppresses.

Counter: Goku stated that he never tested fusion out before because there was nobody on par with him in the after life.It has nothing to do with the results of fusion.

Argument#3: Akira Toriyama states that anybody can perform fusion is it all goes correctly.

Counter: During the Buu Saga Goku believes that the only way to fuse is if two powers are close in strength.Therefore Goku believes that even Ultimate Gohan is close to him in power.

Argument#4: Teen Gohan isn’t anywhere close to Goku in terms of power, rending the proposition invalid.

Counter: Goku considers Vegeta to be close enough in size and Teen Gohan to close enough in power to perform fusion.So we know that the size and power difference between the fusees can vary to this degree.But likely not much more since Piccolo wasn’t considered an option due to his height advantage and strength disadvantage.

Argument#5: Elder Kaioshin knows how much dormant power Gohan has before Gohan under goes the ritual, why wouldn’t he know about Goku’s SSJ3 transformation?

Counter: Incorrect. The Elder Kaioshin specifically stated that if someone could lift the Z Sword than he could turn them into the strongest warrior in the Universe.It has nothing to do with whether or not he can see Gohan’s limits.Which doesn’t really matter because the entire point of under going the ritual was to bring him past his limits.

Argument#6: Goku states that he could have defeated the Fat Majin Buu but he says nothing of Super Buu.

Counter: Innocent Buu and Super Buu have been shown to be comprised of the same material and are therefore the same strength.In the instance that Goku "corrected" himself, he was referring to a fight that actually took place that he could have won, no direct correction to any one statement he made. Goku never fought Super Buu, so there would be no need to "correct" himself in the same light.

Argument#7: Goku wanted to merge or fuse to fight against Super Buu but he doesn’t mind fighting Pure Buu as he is.That proves that Super Buu is stronger than Pure Buu.

Counter: Goku had no problems fusing to defeat Innocent Buu, despite knowing he could have defeated him all along.This argument is hearsay.

Argument#8: The Viz translation: "Wait! He's still stronger than either of us! He'll kill us if we go out like this! Makes it clear that Super Buu would defeat Goku and Vegeta.

Counter: Line up the quotes that come afterwards, in addition to the artwork, it becomes quite clear that Goku stated that they were weaker than Buu as a means to convince Vegeta to try fusion.His childish demeanor makes this quite evident.

Argument#9: Goku and Vegeta weren't worried about fighting Kid Boo.'Look at our little friend!" - Vegeta, "Yeah, we can take him!" - Goku

Counter: Vegeta is clearly judging Buu based upon his size.Goku’s cocky expression show us that he’s agreeing with him.Conjecture.

Argument# Goku doesn’t judge people based upon their size.This occurred during the Cell Games.

Counter: Goku judged the Elder Kaioshin by his size.It’s a contradiction with Goku’s characteristic traits but it does happen.

Argument# Time was the gamble and not strength.

Counter: Goku stated that the boys might need the Room of Spirit and Time later.Therefore strength is the gamble and not time because Goku believes that they are going to learn to fuse quickly.

Argument# Goku says Gotenks will defeat Majin Buu and it is never contradicted.

Counter: Goku contradicted it when he applied the terminology gamble.

Argument# Goku’s final word about fusion is that it will defeat Buu.

Counter: If perfected: and up until that point, only Piccolo and Goku were aware that the strength of Gotenks became a gamble and not time.Nobody else is aware of this.

Argument# Gotenks Base Pre survived a fight with Innocent Buu and Majin Vegeta didn’t, therefore Gotenks is likely already stronger than Vegeta.

Counter: Hercule survived his battles with Pure Buu and Perfect Cell.Conjecture.

Argument# Goku could sense the power of the individuals from planet Metamora and the product of the sum and apply that to Counter: Goten and Trunks to determine how strong Gotenks would be.

Counter: Goku never sensed Goten or Trunks at full power when he concluded that Gotenks would defeat Majin Buu.He changes his opinion after he does.

Argument# Piccolo doesn’t doubt Gotenks’ Ki; only his speed.

Counter: Piccolo was still testing Gotenks out.He never had the opportunity to comprehend what he was capable of.Cell was shown to be incapable of understanding the depths of his own abilities without a demonstration, which is coincidentally, exactly what Piccolo asked for.However, we know that strength and speed are mutually exclusive so arguing that Piccolo’s lack of doubt is synonymous with confidence is a complete reach and pure speculation that contradicts previously established principals.If the main has been shown to be incapable of understanding what he’s capable of, how can you possibly argue that a secondary character would be any more reliable?

Argument# Vegeta stated that when his strength increases his speed increases as well.

Counter: Vegeta’s statement was tailored towards him until that point.

Argument# Why would Goku want to fuse indefinitely as opposed to using Super Saiyan 3 to defeat Majin Buu himself?

Counter: Goku doesn’t believe that he should use Super Saiyan 3 in the world of the living, not as long as he has alternative options, such as fusing with Vegeta or Gohan to defeat Innocent Buu or refraining from engaging Kid Buu directly and preferring to think of an alternate strategy.It is only when Buu forces his hand does Goku utilize Super Saiyan 3, such as when Buutenks rushed him and Kid Buu surprised him by teleporting across the cosmos.

Argument# So you’re saying Goku is an idiot and would let the Earth die by letting someone weaker than himself fight Buu?

Counter:Goku stated that as long as the Dragonballs and Piccolo were fine, than everything else was inconsequential.He left the fate of the world in the hands of Gohan during the Cell Games, why wouldn’t he here?He states that he doesn’t believe that he should save the Earth and that he wishes to take a gamble with the younger generation.

Argument# Nothing says that Gotenks wasn’t able to become a Super Saiyan, while fused, before entering the Rosat.

Counter: This claim suggests that Gotenks wouldn't even attempt something that could save his life, even when he's in real danger, all because Piccolo doesn't believe he has the ability to do it. That's not stupid, that's absurdly stupid.Such a claim requires evidence.However the evidence that we do have suggests the contrary.

Argument# Pure Buu is the most dangerous form of Majin Buu because of how crazy and unpredictable he is, not necessarily because of his strength.

Counter: So Pure Buu is much, much weaker than Super Buu or Buff Buu but he is considered to be more dangerous?That argument is self defeating.Akira Toriyama established

Argument# Goten and Trunks were in separate pods when Goku and Vegeta arrived in Buu’s body, therefore when Gotenks reverted from his SSJ3 transformation, he split back into two people.

Counter: Incorrect.This isn’t what we’re shown when Gotenks reverts from Super Saiyan 3 back into his regular form.

Argument# Super Buu was also smaller than a flea, why wasn’t his power affected?

Counter: Super Buu specifically states ‘the way you guys are now,’ he says nothing about his own size and power being affected, only their own.

Argument# Goku states ‘We did it!’ Did what?The entire purpose of entering Majin Buu’s body was to return him to the very first one of all and make him weak enough to fight.

Counter: Pure Buu isn’t the very first one of all in Goku’s mind.Therefore it renders this argument completely invalid.Goku is obviously talking about something else.If we take the artwork and apply it alongside Vegeta’s statement, it becomes rather clear that they are judging Majin Buu in accordance to his size.Goku has a cocky look on his face but he immediately dismisses this when Pure Buu shows him what he’s capable of.

Argument# Gohan’s potential is higher than Goku’s.Ultimate Gohan should be stronger by default.

Counter: Not necessarily.Gohan had his potential released on Namek but he was still significantly weaker than Goku during that same time period.Within the context of the story this isn’t always a principal and it isn’t always consistent.

Argument# Super Buu was happy that Goku and Vegeta could no longer merge, therefore he knew full well, having fought Goku SSJ3 before, that they could not defeat him.

Counter: Super Buu is also aware that they became too small to damage him.

Argument# Goku’s facial expression while standing in front of Super Buu shows that he’s pretty nervous, therefore he’s intimidated of Super Buu because Super Buu is stronger.

Counter: What?Goku looks pissed off that he’s forced to fight against Super Buu.

Argument# Goku was smaller than a flea and useless, how would a flea sized Gogeta be any different?

Counter: Goku stated that if we could go outside and merge than this kind of guy would be an easy opponent.Goku is obviously referring the Potara fusion, which has been shown --and stated by the Daizenshuu-- to not be affected by changes in size or mass.However, he makes no mention about the Metamoran, which was only considered BEFORE Goku realized that their strength decreased in proportion to their size.

Sours: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/goku-ssj3-ultimate-gohan-gotenks-ssj3-super-buu/

SP Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (Yellow)

GamePress

Table of Contents

Character Tier

4

DBLS

Character Stats

Critical
1,
Ki Restore Speed
2,

Character Info

Overview

Coming straight from his fight against SP Buu: Super PUR in Majin Buu Saga, the ultimate fusion between Goten and Trunks has arrived once again, this time rocking their most powerful transformation - Super Saiyan 3.

In similar fashion to his previous forms, this Gotenks variant is at his peak during early stages of a Match. Even though he’s classified as a Defensive Fighter, he can still pack a punch through his Strike Art Cards, and his very high chance to inflict Faint via Ultimate Arts Card can swing the tides of the Match in his Team favor.

Despite his excellent early-game prowess, Gotenks simply can't keep it up in the late-game. His Blast Attack, even at the start of combat, is laughably poor, and his Main Tags have better options than him. At the very least, he contributes to his Teams with his excellent Z-Ability.

Strengths

Rewarding Cover

SP SSJ3 Gotenks YEL is the first Fusion Warrior Fighter that comes equipped with Cover Ability, and it’s a strong one at that.

While the 40% Damage reduction during Cover is rather standard, activating it gives him a huge 50% Strike Damage inflicted Boost - coupled with Buffs gained from his base +35% Damage Inflicted Butt provided by his Unique Ability, "Crazy Strong", he becomes a force to reckoned with.

Crowd Control

This Gotenks is the first character in the game to introduce Ranged Ultimate Arts Card, and it’s a very powerful one at that. With up to 75% chance to Faint, landing it can create a game-change situation which sets up a high Damaging combo for him or his Teammates.

His Extra Move Immobilizes the Enemy in similar fashion to SP FF Frieza YEL, but also heavily reduced Enemy Ki Recovery Speed.

All of the above, alongside the Ki Reduction from his Special Move Arts Card, this Combo can heavily impact Enemy movement and Ki management, giving the upper hand to his Team on many occasions

Valuable Z-Ability

Z-Abilities that increase base Health are invaluable, making Fighters with them well-sought after. Not only does this Gotenks increase Health of Fusion Warriors--being the first Fighter ever to do so--he also does so for Hybrid Saiyans, making him a great addition to both of those Teams.

Weaknesses

Unpredictable Strength

Unique Ability ‘Crazy Strong’ provides much-needed Damage Buffs in addition to Buffs that greatly help with his Ki and Vanish Gauge management.

The issue with this Ability lies in its random nature though. Every time SP SSJ3 Gotenks YEL enters the battlefield, he receives between one to three Buffs that either reduce Strike Arts cost, increase his Ki or Vanish Gauge recovery.

There’s no way to control which of these Buffs are applied to him, making his strength and usefulness heavily depend on luck of the draw.

In addition, the fact that he loses his biggest Damage Buff after 45 timer counts from start of the Match certainly doesn’t help him either.

Stats Distribution

While SP SSJ3 Gotenks YEL boasts great Strike and Blast Defenses that go very well with Cover Ability, his Health pool is on the lower side for a Defensive Fighter, even when accounting in the bonus provided by his Z-Ability.

Similarly, his Blast Attack leaves much to be desired and can quickly become his pain point, because the Fighters that he is often paired with are Ranged Fighters that bring Blast Art Cards into the deck.

Team Synergy

Hybrid Saiyan

At 5 stars, SP SSJ3 Gotenks YEL also Buffs the Health of Hybrid Saiyan Tag through his Z-Ability. While SP Kid Gohan YEL also boasts the same Z-Ability, the former Fighter isn’t just a bench, which can open more Team Building options.

The addition ofSP SSJ Youth Gohan YEL completely kicks him off the core but SP SSJ3 Gotenks YEL still has a more valuable Z-Ability

As a Yellow Defensive Fighter that brings two Strike Art Cards, this Gotenks has great Synergy with SP Ultimate Gohan GRN, both color and kit-wise.

While he excels in early stages of the Match, he gets slightly weaker later on, but SP SSJ2 Gohan RED can pick up the torch from him to carry the rest of the Match. Again, however, he's inferior to SP SSJ Youth Gohan YEL and should only be brought along if Hybrid Saiyan Players are missing him.

Equippable Items

Main Ability

Here I Go!

Draw the Ultimate Arts Card "Charging Ultra Buu Buu Volleyball" next.

Requirements: 20 timer counts must elapse.

Unique Ability

Crazy Strong

+30% to damage inflicted from battle start for 45 timer counts.
1 to 3 of the following effects will occur every time this character enters the battlefield:

to own Strike Arts cost for 10 timer counts.
+30% to own Ki Recovery for 10 timer counts.
+30% to own Vanishing Gauge Recovery for 10 timer counts.

Cover: Sustained Damage CUT

Reduces damage received by 40% until combo ends when changing cover.
+50% to Strike damage inflicted for 10 timer counts and +2 to own substitution count when activated.

Ghost Medal (Gold) +3

+3 to Ghost Medals (Gold) dropped during the Legends Road - Gotenks - Event.
Active Period: -

Z Ability

Special

Die Die Missile Barrage Can Teach

Deals major Explode damage.
Reduces enemy Ki by 50 on hit.


Cost 50

Extra

Howl

Immobilizes the enemy on hit.
Inflicts enemy with Attribute Downgrade "% to Ki Recovery" for 10 timer counts on hit.


Cost 25

Ultimate Special

Charging Ultra Buu Buu Volleyball

Deals major Explode damage.
The following effects occur based on the number of battle members:

1 member: 10% chance to inflict Faint on hit.
2 members: 30% chance to inflict Faint on hit.
3 members: 75% chance to inflict Faint on hit.


Cost 20

Resistance

Soul Boost Stats

Stat%%%%%%%
Health
Strike Attack
Blast Attack
Strike Defense
Blast Defense
Critical
Strike Art Level2345555
Blast Art Level2345555
Special Art Level1122222
Extra Art Level1122222
Ultimate Art Level1122222
Equipment Slots1222333

Recommended Soul Boosts

SP Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks (Yellow)

Stats

Why this Tier?

Discussion:

He's been replaced on Fusion and now Hybrid Saiyans a few times over. He still has a solid Z-Ability which will remain relevant, but it's not advised he's used on the core.

Sours: https://gamepress.gg/dblegends/character/sp-super-saiyangotenks-yellow
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Gotenks

Anime
Manga

ゴテンクス

Gotenkusu

Appears in

Dragon Ball Z
Dragon Ball Super

Gotenks (ゴテンクス,Gotenkusu), previously known as Trunkten, is the immensely powerful fusion of Goten and Trunks successfully using the Fusion Dance, and the first successful fusion dance character to be seen in the Dragon Ball series. He likes to call himself, "The Hero of Justice" or "Grim Reaper of Justice".

Overview

Behind the Dance

Gotenks is a fusion taught to Goten and Trunks by Goku, and is later trained by Piccolo. He is one of the fusions performed through the use of the Fusion Dance technique. The dance is a special type of fusion ability, a connection through the fusees' fingers. The fusees need to perform a special type of pose, then connect their index fingers evenly to produce a perfect fusion. He, like Gogeta, is summoned out of desperation to defeat powerful enemies. In Gotenks' case, this enemy is Majin Buu and later in the saga, he is to be used by Super Buu as his main power source when Gotenks is absorbed. He is seen a few times in Dragon Ball Z and the movies (debuting in Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn).

Behind the Fusion

Gotenks is very young, but powerful, and is very playful and an extreme procrastinator. He has a quite cocky and rebellious personality. He likes to do things his own way and has been told more than once that he acts more like Vegeta than anyone else. Gotenks thinks he is in total control, and has everything in his hands. He is able to perform a few transformations, increasing his power and making him more confident and deadly in battle. He is quite creative and original, and creates a broad, yet ridiculous array of his own attacks. However, some of his creative techniques do inflict potent damage, such as his Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack, or his Galactic Donut.

Appearance

Gotenks wears a dark blue (black in the manga) and yellow colored Metamoran vest, one which all characters created by the Fusion Dance have. Around his waist is a teal sash, and he wears white silky pants, dark shoes with teal wraps, and black wristbands.

Gotenks greatly resembles Vegeta in terms of his hairstyle, and facial expressions. His hair style is a mixture of the hair of both Trunks and Goten, with the front and back of his hair being black like those of Goten's, and the sides being the purple/white color that Trunks' hair is. Gotenks also has a widow's peak. Like the genetic composition of Goten and Trunks, Gotenks is a Saiyan/Human hybrid and can thus turn Super Saiyan; the style of his hair is similar overall to Goten's while in Super Saiyan form. His body is also very toned and muscular, especially for someone his age.

Personality

Gotenks' personality is unique even though he shares personality traits of his creators, Goten and Trunks. Gotenks is known to be cocky, arrogant, and mischievous like Trunks, yet he acts playful and, occasionally, whiny like Goten. Gotenks is a pompous, immature and conceited fighter who believes his power is enough to take on anyone even when he is about to lose a fight; this is likely due to his massive power increase during fusion, creating a warrior much like the counterpart of his fusees' fathers. Gotenks loves to be excessively dramatic, and shows this by calling his attacks loudly and giving ridiculous names to somewhat stylized versions of otherwise normal punches and kicks.

However, he tends to think of himself as a hero who fights for justice, which is for the most part true as the only thing that limits him is his arrogance and tendency to waste time by showing off which is a dangerous habit for a fusion like himself. Several characters have noted that his tendency not to listen to others resembles Vegeta.

As an adult he is shown to matured somewhat and takes fights more seriously similar to his fusion father, Gogeta.

Biography

Dragon Ball Z

Majin Buu Saga

Main articles: Majin Buu Saga, Fusion Saga, and Kid Buu Saga

"Buu is nothing, I will bring him back. Dead."
&#; Gotenks to Piccolo

Gotenks is first seen within the Majin Buu Saga. It was suggested that he be created in response to the destructive forces of the powerful Majin Buu, who had defeated most of Earth's strongest fighters, such as Gohan and Vegeta, and who had murdered a large chunk of the Earth's population. Goten and Trunks, Gotenks' fusion counterparts, were trained and taught by Goku (who learned of the Fusion Dance in the Other World) and later by Piccolo, after Goku ran out of time on Earth, on how to successfully perform the Fusion Dance. After learning the procedures and steps that needed to be taken for its success, Goten and Trunks performed the fusion, however they failed not once, but twice. Because the Fusion Dance is a thirty-minute period, one hour was wasted on Gotenks' fusion. This was usually due to the fact that one of the counterparts, either Goten or Trunks, did something incorrectly while performing the dance, be it even slightly not extending one finger, causing Gotenks to be formed as grotesquely emaciated or morbidly obese.

Eventually, Goten and Trunks performed the Fusion Dance properly and created the fighter Gotenks. Piccolo and the others noticed that he had incredible power, but it was questioned as to whether or not he could fight Majin Buu. When Gotenks was first fused, he felt quite confident of his new power, and even jumped to a conclusion that he was strong enough to beat Majin Buu. However, Piccolo believes it would be best to wait another thirty minutes, so they can fuse again as Super Saiyans. Gotenks arrogantly tells him he's strong enough to defeat Majin Buu as he is now. Piccolo calls him a fool, not knowing anything about Buu, and he definitely can't win as he is now. Gotenks flies off, ignoring Piccolo's protests. Piccolo thinks he's an idiot, and he'll be killed. When Gotenks reaches Majin Buu, he insults Buu, calling him fat, which angers Buu into a fight. Unfortunately for him and the rest of Z Warriors, Majin Buu swiftly took care of Gotenks in a heartbeat. Gotenks retreated, and realized that he was still too weak for Majin Buu. Piccolo scolds the overconfident fusion and says that they need more training before facing Buu again tomorrow.

"Yeah exactly, see? I'm way more powerful than you. You're just a big overgrown pink doughboy."
&#; "Gotenks is Born"

Trunks and Goten transformed themselves as Super Saiyans. However, because the Fusion Dance requires near-equal, if not identical power levels of each of the fused individuals, Trunks had to lower his power level to match Goten's, since his was slightly higher from being one year older. The two young Super Saiyans then fused and became Super Saiyan Gotenks. The new Gotenks decided to test his new strength and speed, by racing around the world dozens of times in a flash, with Piccolo in hot pursuit. From watching his speed and childish acts, Piccolo analyzed Gotenks' new strength. He realized that he's incredibly faster than before, and also noted before that it was an impressive transformation. After taking swift laps around Earth, Gotenks thought he was definitely ready for Majin Buu, but taking a nap after flying around the world so many times caused his fusion time to elapse, and he defused into Goten and Trunks before Buu could even figure out what the commotion was about. Piccolo insisted that he rest, and let Trunks and Goten get their strength back from all the hassle of actually pulling off the Fusion. But while Gotenks and Piccolo celebrated with their success, Majin Buu gained major issues.

After a brief fight with his evil counterpart, Evil Buu, Majin Buu was eaten and absorbed by him, resulting in the powerful Super Buu. During his fight with Super Saiyan 3 Goku, Majin Buu was promised another powerful fighter besides Goku. This promise was made by Goku, and Majin Buu thought heavily on the offer. Majin Buu had to wait a couple days before the fighter was ready. He was tempted to refuse, but Majin Buu accepted the offer. But now, because that memory sinks in deep within his mind, Super Buu ponders on where his strong fighter is. When he is created, Super Buu immediately goes to The Lookout with his newfound ability to sense ki signatures, and finds the very place where Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, and the rest of the group were located. Everyone was horrified of Super Buu's new evil power, and they started to fret as to what he would do with them. Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan, who were the strongest warriors on the planet, were all dead or not physically present, as Goku had returned to Other World as his time on Earth was up, Vegeta had sacrificed himself in a futile attempt to dispose of Majin Buu, and Gohan was thought dead after his defeat, but was located on the Sacred World of the Kai with Supreme Kai, Kibito, Goku, and the Old Kai, with the latter unlocking Gohan's latent potential. Gotenks was the only being thought left to have any chance against Super Buu with them gone.

After his arrival, Super Buu demanded his promised fighter. Piccolo was the only responding being that can answer the atrocious monster's demands because Goten and Trunks were in the middle of resting. Piccolo offers one hour, corresponding to the promised days that Super Buu had to wait. Because Super Buu was so impatient, he decided to kill all of the remaining humans on Earth to take up time by homing onto all their energy signals and launching countless tiny, but deadly energy beams upon them, killing all but those who were fast enough to dodge the attacks (such as Tien and Chiaotzu), and Mr. Satan and his dogBee, who had earlier befriended Majin Buu. Super Buu then waited for a small amount of time for the preparation of Gotenks. However, he was too eager to fight and far too impatient to wait any longer. Eventually, his patience ran out before waiting half of the hour he was told to, and Super Buu demanded to see his fighter. Piccolo was left with no choice but to lure Buu toward Gotenks, but he was not yet ready. Goten and Trunks were sleeping, and Super Buu was right on their way. Fortunately, Piccolo decided to take a long route, giving the two youngsters extra time to prepare themselves. Even though he was only able to stall Buu for one minute, this equated to roughly six hours inside of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, and allowed Goten and Trunks the time they needed to recuperate. (It also gave the young Saiyans enough time to unlock their "secret weapon"). Super Buu started to get really impatient after a few minutes for walking so long, and threatened Piccolo that he will kill everyone on the lookout if he is not taken to his fighter. Piccolo decided it was now or never, and finally led Super Buu to his fighter. Within the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, Super Buu saw two young individuals, and mistook them for his fighter.

While the two boys prepared to fuse, Super Buu charged towards Trunks, and punched him down before he fused with Goten. Trunks demanded that Super Buu hold his horses and watch them fuse. Super Buu paused to try and understand what was going on, and in the process gives Goten and Trunks enough time to fuse into Gotenks. Super Buu looked at the fused young warrior as if he was a joke, and even dared him to give him his best shot. Gotenks did just that, and got pummeled to the ground. He then got back up, and complimented Buu on his swiftness. Gotenks charged towards Super Buu, but Super Buu dodged all his attacks easily, and swiftly punched Gotenks yet again. Gotenks then started to use an array of enigmatic attacks, which were all flimsy and strange, and they humorously failed against Super Buu. Just as Gotenks was about to try yet another one of his fancy moves, Super Buu slapped him right across his face, pummeling him into a wall and stating he'd had enough of the weakling. Gotenks then decided to heat things up a notch, and transformed into a Super Saiyan.

Piccolo was happy that the young Saiyan had finally achieved his transformation (since Gotenks was unable to take the form without being fused into it, before), and thought that he was ready for Super Buu. Gotenks thought up another strange attack to unleash on Super Buu, where he powered up and created a huge circular ring of energy called the Galactic Donut. He then extended the energy ring around Super Buu's head. He lowered the ring, and reduced the ring's size on Super Buu, hoping to squeeze the breath out of him. Super Buu seemed to react painfully to the attack, but gets slightly serious and blasted his way out of its grasp with ease. Gotenks is stunned, but then tried to go head to head with Super Buu. It seemed he was getting onto Super Buu, and even annoyingly bumped Super Buu on his head. However, most of the injuries Super Buu suffered were only through foolish accidents, and made him seem to only be playing around with Gotenks. Super Buu then charged out for Gotenks, who miraculously gets out of the way, but Super Buu's speed is too much for Gotenks, and he kicked him down to the ground.

Gotenks and Super Buu then spar for a quick moment, with Super Buu eventually gaining the upper hand with a swift swipe to Gotenks with his Head Tentacle. Piccolo stands by horrified that Gotenks is losing even as a Super Saiyan. Gotenks seems to be running out of ideas as to what move he'll perform next, but then thinks of something that takes strange to a whole new level. Gotenks begins to power up, and then starts to regurgitate out ghost versions of himself. Super Buu and Piccolo are shocked and confused as to what exactly Gotenks is doing, but the answer quickly made itself visible. Gotenks assembled a ghost like version of himself, calling the technique "Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack". The first ghost was quickly punched by Super Buu, but he suddenly realized that each ghost was a contact bomb. The ghost immediately exploded when Buu punched it.

This crippled Super Buu, seemingly leaving him in great pain. However the pink monster easily regenerated, and made himself % for the fight again. Gotenks and Piccolo are shocked, but Gotenks quickly puts his Ghosts to work. He, after creating ten of them, assembles them all in a single file line. As Gotenks begin to chat with his ghost counterparts, Piccolo informs him that Super Buu is relaxing and loafing around drinking soda, and is waiting until he is ready. Gotenks gets furious, and charges all his ghosts on Super Buu. However, Super Buu figures out how to eliminate each ghost without touching them, and easily disposes of two of them by moving out of the way, enraging Gotenks.

The same procedure as the last is met, and Gotenks plans a way to destroy Super Buu. Knowing he has a ravenous appetite, Gotenks instructs his ghosts to pretend that they saw food. The ghosts listen to the plan, and carry it on pointing at the floor and murmuring "what's it doing" and "it's weird". Super Buu is curious to know what the commotion is all about asking can I eat it, and peeks his head within the circle of Ghosts. They all perform a preemptive strike on Super Buu, luring him in with a supposed piece of food on the ground, blowing him to pieces, leading Gotenks and Piccolo to finally think that Super Buu is gone when they burn all the pieces. But unfortunately, he regenerates as usual. Gotenks (pretends to be) baffled as to how he can beat Super Buu, knowing he had a secret technique he had not shown (he then pretends to have lost it all to make the situation all the more dramatic). Piccolo then decided to take a risk, and destroyed the entrance and only exit out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. This apparently traps Piccolo, Gotenks, and Super Buu inside forever. After this, in the manga, Gotenks tells Piccolo that he still has energy and starts insulting with Piccolo insulting him back for playing a joke. Super Buu hears the news, and filled only with the thoughts that he will never eat sweets ever again, begins to get extremely mad. With a powerful scream, he then tears a hole through a new dimension. The opposite side of the hole seem to lead outside of the Chamber.

"Hey! With all this crazy hair I barely recognize myself. Eh, at least it's better than pointy ears."
&#; "Feeding Frenzy"

Super Buu is happy that he is still able to eat, and quickly escapes through his newly created dimension rip, leaving Gotenks and Piccolo trapped inside. When outside, Super Buu resurfaces and has the rest of the Z Warriors at his mercy. Gotenks and Piccolo are trapped in the Chamber, leaving no one strong enough to stop Super Buu. Krillin takes it upon himself to try and stand up to Super Buu, but is quickly stumped, and turned into a candy. As a result of his near entrapment in the chamber, Super Buu then decides to change everyone on the Lookout into candy, and fires a massive Antenna Beam from his Head Tentacle. Meanwhile, Gotenks and Piccolo are trying to figure out how Super Buu got out. After witnessing him getting angry, Gotenks and Piccolo begin to get angry and scream out loud just like what Super Buu did to escape. Unfortunately, their power levels were too low to rip another new hole in the dimension. They try it over and over, and repeatedly fail. Then, Gotenks reveals he's going to now show his "secret ability," and then begins to power up substantially. His hair then begins to grow, and his eyebrows start disappearing as lightning began surrounding him in a bright spark of light as Gotenks is undergoing a powerful and astonishing transformation. Gotenks surpasses Super Saiyan 2 and is revealed as a Super Saiyan 3.

Piccolo is amazed and cannot believe the power before him. Gotenks then begins to put his new power to work, and proceeds to attempt the same feat made by Super Buu. His new strength seem to be more than enough to create the same dimension hole as Super Buu did. Gotenks then escapes first, and warns Piccolo to come along before he is permanently trapped inside. The Namekian quickly gets out of his shock, and obeys the young Super Saiyan 3. Back outside, the two witness the carnage Super Buu made. He completely devoured everyone from his beam, and cracked the exterior of Kami's Lookout. When asked what has he done from Gotenks, Super Buu replies everyone is in his stomach. Gotenks begins to think of Bulma and Chi-Chi (though, Super Buu crushed the latter by turning her into an egg before entering the chamber), as part of his mother(s), and immediately starts charging for Super Buu in rage. He then begins to best Super Buu with his new Super Saiyan 3 strength. Gotenks delivers a few quick punches on Super Buu, and seems to be faster than him. However, Super Buu still seems to be playing around with him. Gotenks and Super Buu continue their fight, but Super Buu begins to gain a slight upper hand with his elastic body. He starts dodging most of Gotenks' physical attacks by forming himself into flexible loops.

At one point, Gotenks gains the upper hand and blows Super Buu to pieces with his Splitting Headache. He celebrates, but the pieces of Super Buu suddenly begin to spin around him very rapidly. Super Buu suddenly reforms, with the area from his chest to his feet wrapped around Gotenks, and the upper portion of his body right behind Gotenks. Super Buu puts his hands in the air and allows his body to do the work, and he starts squeezing him. Gotenks tells him to stop squeezing, but Super Buu only laughs and starts squeezing Gotenks harder and harder. Super Buu squeezes him for a good amount of time, and then suddenly takes off and begins to fly. Super Buu flies for a good distance, with him still carrying Gotenks right next to him in his body. Super Buu flies toward a mountain, then suddenly stops and releases his iron body grip on Gotenks, sending him flying into a nearby mountain.

Gotenks gets up and begins to use another new move, the Balloon Flash Bomber. He creates a total of 14 ghosts with this technique, and they seem to be more powerful than before. He then assembles them all on Super Buu, but he quickly dodges them, and eliminates them all. However, a ghost manages to come in contact with Super Buu, and hurts him badly. This leaves Super Buu open for an attack from Gotenks, tearing him to pieces. However, Super Buu regenerates yet again. When reformed, Gotenks quickly charges for Super Buu. Both fighters seem to be pretty evenly matched, however, Super Buu keeps regenerating from each of Gotenks' powerful attacks. Gotenks fires rays of beams at Super Buu, and even sharply slices the pink monster in half. But with each attack Gotenks use, his rapidly depleting Super Saiyan 3 energy is drained and Super Buu just regenerates from them all. Super Buu begins to become shocked at Gotenks' new strength, but smiles at the young Saiyan. Piccolo is stunned to see Gotenks going head to head with Super Buu, and becomes quite happy of the young Saiyan; when he is not in shock at the toll the battle is taking on his old palace.

Super Buu then begins to take an advantage when he made his body into a ball, by forcing his legs over his shoulders, and his arms holding them tight. He causes total destruction around his environment, and seems to be too fast and agile for Gotenks. However, the young Super Saiyan 3 grips Super Buu into another one of his fancy attacks known as Charging Ultra Buu Buu Volleyball. Super Buu is caught in a series of ring like suction energies that squeezed him before, which grip circular objects. And since Super Buu was a ball, he was quickly caught and trapped inside of it. Gotenks then begins to play with his new Super Buu Ball, and eventually slams him to the ground with a spike (with the help of Piccolo in a rather comedic scene). Super Buu seems to be done for within the ball, but he forms a huge blast out of Gotenks' energy ball rings, and resurfaces. Once he resurfaces after recovering from Gotenks' Continuous Die Die Missile, Gotenks and Super Buu go head to head again. Gotenks seem to be having a slight advantage, and evades most of Super Buu's attacks. However, Super Buu at times catches Gotenks off guard and delivers painful blows. They both fight hard and tense, even extending the battle to cities and mountains.

Super Buu fires a huge wave out of his mouth at Gotenks, and hurts him very badly. But Gotenks retaliates with the very same technique

Sours: https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Gotenks
SSJ2 Trunks vs SSJ3 Goku!

theherodjl wrote:Throughout the story, in either Toriyama's works or in other media, I cannot recall Goten or Trunks using SSJ3 without fusing into Gotenks: why is that, and why are they never seen even using SSJ2 & the SSJ Grade forms either? They're prodigious, in possession of high potential, and certainly have the S-Cells for it so what exactly gives? Have they simply given up on trying to become stronger as individuals? Are their young bodies/minds incapable of holding a superior level of SSJ? Does their status as being tailless Saiyans have anything to do with it? What's the problem here?

Half-saiyans have more potential than pure saiyans but they lack the desire to fight and train. They don't have the "lust" for fighting. If Goten and Trunks continually trained, they would have SSJ2 and SSJ3 independently but they don't. Simply inheriting S-cells from their parents only allows them to turn into a SSJ at a young age easier. In terms of the Super Saiyan grades, it's assumed they learned to control their stamina and hence are already using grade 4. Grade 2 and 3 are not even needed. Grade 4 is just a mastery of stamina of Grade 1.

I will quote what is already stated in the Daizenshuu 4 regarding the tailless generation of Saiyans:

The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.

DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=

Sours: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=

3 gotenks ssj

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Dragon Ball Heroes - Super Saiyan 3 Adult Gotenks [HD]

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